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Tag Archives: agamudayar


Im a Agamudayar/Arcot Mudaliar / Tuluva vellala, and so I dont know if my ancestors came here from gujarat with agastiyar or if my ancestors have been here for ever way before agastiyar came here.

 

Coz it is believed that agasityar brought vellalas down from north and that they are called velir and that they are the same / origins/ancestors of vellalar people

Link

The story of the southern migration of the Velir from Dvaraka under the leadership
of Agastya is narrated by Naccinarkkiniyar in his commentary on Tolkappiyam
(payiram ; Porul.34). According to this legend, the gods congregated on Mount Meru
as a result of which the earth tilted, lowering Meru and raising the southern quarter.
The gods thereupon decided that Agastya was the best person to remedy this situation
and requested him to proceed to the South. Agastya agreed and, on his way, visited
‘Tuvarapati’ (Dvaraka) and led the descendants of netu-muti-annal (Visnu or Krsna)
including ‘eighteen kings, eighteen families of the Velir and the Aruvalar’ to the
south, where they settled down ‘clearing the forests and cultivating the land’.

This migration of agasityar is dated at anywhere between 1000 bc to 300 BC –  tolkappiyar who was a contemporary/shishyan of agastiyar wrote tolkappiyam which is dated between 300 and 10th century bc.

Now the argument goes that there were people living in Tamil nadu and practicing agriculture from around 1500 BC ( Adichanallur artifacts). In sanga ilakkiyam it is said that marutha nilam is full of vellalar chieftans who served the chera/chola/pandya kings. It is believed that the velirs are from the agastyar gujarat migration and chera/chola/pandyas are from thevar stock. It is also said that the mukkulathor stock are here all along, wayy before the gujaratis came here.

 

My question is why should it be that the Thevars should be of a different stck from the gujarati migrants??? It is understood that velir are landed gentry (land owning rich guys) but also involved in wars,governance etc as needed.Whereas the primary thing/occupation of thevars are policing/ruling and being a soldier. They could have very well been from the same stock of 18 kings,18 velirs and 18 aruvalars from gujarat. Thevars could have been from the 18 kings, or some velirs might have taken up servai/agam padiyar profession. But bottom line is even Thevars could be from gujarat.

What explains the neolithic activity Before agstiyar came here??? neolithic activity was all over india -from 7000 BC  in indus valley, some where around 6000 bc in Kerala (as it was easier to move down the west coast and it took time to come to TN at adichanallur at around 1800 bc. Before Agastiyar came here, there were Nagas and yakkhas who were here. Not speaking tamil but a different lingo. Post-Agastiyar people like the tamil cholas defeated and converted these earlier people of Tamil nadu to speak tamil. Before Agastiyar came down, no one spoke Tamil, but they spoke other languages. Even in srilanka, there were SInhalese existing long before tamils came. Ellalan – the forst ever chola was a migrant to srilanka and was considered an invader from tamil country bu the sinhalese. SO sinhalese( from Indian/bengali/oriya ancestry) were there first.  Before agasityar came down, ravanan who was a north indian born in UP went there to defeat his brother Kuberan/vaisravanan. SO there were other people living in patches/pockets in this region down south before Agastiyar n his companions came in, but they did not speak Tamil.

So thse chera/chola/pandya stock are all tamil people who converted the others, cleared forests to make it cultivable land across Tamil nadu. So it is possible that chera chola pandyas also belong to the stock from gujarat. The velir king irunkovel says he is from gujarat and he belongs to ayar kulam ( also called yadavargal/yadavas) and that he was 49th generation from a gujarati king .  Some velirs like paari/poori etc who became strong enough became kings and fought with CHera/chola/pandya, but it doesnt mean that CH/CHo/Pan are from diff stock.  Bottom line vellalars and agamudayars/marvars/kallars etc were only Profeesions and not distinct ancestry. Even nadars/SCs/MBC and others could have been from the Aruvalars stock or a group of people who lost dominance/power because of the profession they took up.Although sengunthars waved, because they became powerful enough and participated in wars/administration became mudaliars.

“Mella maruvi vellalar aanare” – imo just refers to a change in profession by purchasing land and doing farming and not  that they became of a higher class.  If thevar stock are the kings and rulers, how can they go up the ladder by becoming farmers. Most thevar stock who are not kings but soldiers may have decided to take up farming, thats all.

To re-iterate, I think  Mukkulathors/Velirs /yadavs etc etc belong to the same group that came along with Agastiyar. Befroe Agastiyar there was no tamil, only nagas ,yakkhas and others who spoke a different language altogether. The leadership of agastiyar created the Tamils and tamil people. No groups/clans here can trace anything of their ancestry via the Tamil Sangam literature before Agastiyar.

We are not some Mixed race people of many migrant invaders. We vellalrs/mukkkulathors and some others belong to the same stock that came along with agasityar is my guess. Theremight be some groups who trace their ancestry to nagas/yakkhas and some other non-tamil earlier groups. But the above groups imo are from the post agastiyar stock. Not talking about the Naicker telugu stock who came later or some other smaller invasions like gowdas etc. So thevars/Mukkulathor may also be from the stock brought down by agastiyar. No evidence in literature/archaeology to indicate otherwise.No evidence to indicate A tamil speaking people here in TN before Agstiyar. Origin of Tamil, todays tamil people and Mukkulathors goes back to Agastiyars migration to South and nothing before that.

If you go through mu other blogs and have a little brain, you may realise why not being an old tribe or a mix of many invading groups makes you a more successful group as a whole from an existential perspective

some people might find the above point that there was no proper tamil society before agastiar as absurd for the reason that in sangam literature there are already talks of 49 villages , ch,cho,pan kings and VELIR people as chieftans in those villages etc. If tolkappiyar was  in second sangam,  only little time between the arrival of agastiyar and the vast tamil society described in tamil sangam literature exists, andso this vast expansion of society in less time doesnt seem plausible. But the same argument makes it absurd that velirs who came from gujarat became chieftans of every single territory in tamil society. So if the so called pure vellalas say they r from gujarat, even the thevars,yadavs etc are most likely to be from gujarat.

I am equally comfortable with the fact that a few people from kerala came down to adichanallur to be the first neolithic people of tamil nadu. Without neolithic people n society, there are no thevars or kallar,maravar,agampadiyar or servai professions. The vellalars even in this scenario are the same stock as mukkulathors but with different profession.The above scenario makes us tamils as a whole such a successful group compared to others, if you can understand the important point in the below video.

An utterly ridiculous but popular theory is that SCs r australoid, Thevars are Dravidian-semi-australoid n that vellalars r Aryans from gujarat.

A very important perspective for us to consider.

 

 

 

Bottom line is compared to either keralites or kannada or telugu or north indians or anyone, tamils/vellalars as a group are more successful in terms of impactfulness or in terms of enjoying the pleasures of living – simply because we as a group were multiple tims more successful in terms of population expansion. These terms can be better understood fro my other blogs. So whenever we are at the proximity of others, we should feel happy about ourselves as we are more successful as a group(from the time of seperation from them) even though they might individually be more impactful than us or have a more pleasurable life.

 

 

 

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